[ Silence ] >> Nicole here. Every-- it seems like an annual event now when Terrence comes. It's very challenging and inspiring for our community and we're very happy to welcome him back again. Thanks. >> It's good to be here. [ Applause ] >> Well, this is the culmination of a dream of mine and sort of a departure from what you may be used to from me. I think inevitably this weekend will be a little more personal and maybe less cosmic than some have been because I sort of have to open my private life to you because what I'll be doing this weekend is basically sharing a friend. Last year I was here with Rian Eisler but that was a marriage of ideological convenience, not that it wasn't sincere but we were drawn together primarily because our ideas were in congruence. Nicole and I on the other hand were drawn together primarily because our patterns of intoxication seem to be in congruence. [ Laughter ] We're going this weekend to talk inevitably a lot about the Amazon, the crisis of conservation in the warm tropics, vegetable medicine. Nicole is a world expert. She's spent over 40 years in the Amazon after a very complex and fertile time spent in the Far East before that. She's a storyteller, an ethnographer, and a personality of great depth, warmth, and uniqueness. And it's a pleasure to appear here with her. I first met Nicole in 1980 when I was part of an expedition to the Amazon that involved Wade Davis of Serpent and Rainbow fame and my brother and Dennis and some other people from the University of British Columbia. And I had read Nicole's book, The Witch Doctor's Apprentice. This tells you something. This lady got in on it so early that shaman wasn't even a word, let alone a buzzword when the first edition of her book came out. And I quickly discovered in Iquitos in 1980 that all roads seem to lead to Nicole. If you wanted something done, if you wanted to meet somebody, if you wanted an obstacle cleared away with the Peruvian government or the university, Nicole was the person to see. And one of my weaknesses is for characters. And I've collected them in all times and places. My charm bracelet has such peculiar specimens as Ralph Abraham, Rupert Sheldrake, Nina Wise, Joan Halifax, unique types. I mean, they threw the mold away before they made these people. And Nicole fell in to that category. So in line with that picture of our mutual love of hell raising, I have to tell you that we stayed up much too late last night. And so we're mere shells before this evening. Yes, and some of you, I understand, are mere shells. When I really feel like a mere shell, I feel like an old wasp's nest. [laughter] So what I thought we would do this evening is we want to meet each of you. This is Roy Tuffman is on vacation this month. So we have an intimate group. If otherwise we would have had a financially successful group. [laughter] So we trade one breakthrough for another. But what I would like to do this evening briefly is go around the circle and just hear who you are and what your interests are and maybe a statement of your expectation or your hope for the thing. Make it brief. One cannot say often enough in these situations that lack of brevity is proof of psychosis. [laughter] So please bear that in mind. Fifty people are looking at you and wondering how balanced you are. So this is an opportunity to lead them astray. [laughter] And I'll slyly organize it so that we come around and then it will come to Nicole last before me and then I will tie it all up if I can. So why don't we do that just briefly. Before we start let me say we will have three meetings tomorrow. One in the evening, the other two in the obvious slots and one meeting on Sunday. And all of these meetings will either be under the teaching tree which is immediately outside or right here if the weather turns bad on us. Tomorrow night's meeting will be here. So why don't we just quickly go around the circle and introduce ourselves. Michael, why don't you start. Okay, hi, I'm Michael. I spend my time living here at the Ilhae Foundation and at Omega Institute in New York. And Terrence, his material and influences that he's been influenced by have been important to me as well. I love science for sure. I love Tai Chi. Glad to meet you. My name is Leon. I also work here. Terrence changed my life to be honest. I've always been rather scared of the psychedelics and I met him at Esslin a number of years ago. And he was the first person who said something sane about me that really changed my thinking. And ever since I've been greatly stirred by his ideas and they really impacted me a lot. So I'm very thankful to be here with you again. Glad you're here Leon. My name is Julie Welling. I live down in the valley here. And I'm anxious to hear Nicole's story. My name is Steven. I heard you one day on the radio about six months ago and it was the first time I ever had any validation on what was going on in the other world for me. And you verbalize it when you talk about it. And it's what I experienced. It's just really brought some light into my life. And I really appreciate it. My name is Elaine and I'm here because I'm feeling a draw to change and get reconnected with the earth and make a contribution where I can be helped. I'm Naomi A. DeMock. I'm a work scholar here at the O'Hare Foundation. And I'm especially concerned about the threat to the health of individuals. My name is John Wymore. I'm a temporary part-time staff member. I'm anxious to find out who the hell you are. Me too. I'm Joe Lasoski and I'm a painter, fine arts. I started doing psychedelics with Lee Cholingan maybe 20 years ago. And I met Terrence, it was like a meeting with shaman at Esalen maybe 10 years ago. My name is Christopher and I have an interest in the Amazon and psychedelics. And I'm very often haunted by Terrence. Terrence used to do radio and other media. My name is Nina and I'm a performance artist and both friends. I expect the unexpected. Yes, Nina. Nina introduced me to my wife and it's been unexpected ever since. And I'm really delighted to meet Nicole. I'm Faustine Gray. With Brian Morris we compose sound-floating synthesis and a band called Intuit. We produced Terrence and Kat and many other folks around the town that you have come to know and love. And it's great to see you here again. We were here last year with Ralph Metzner and Terrence for our first time in a while. And we're glad to be here again this year. Brian, music and this kind of stuff. I'm quite happy to be with these great characters. My name is Elizabeth. When I was 37, on my birthday, I heard a voice inside my head say, "From now on, everything will be in reverse." And to point it out, while I was driving about a half a mile from my house, four-wheeled deer went out and I drove home in reverse. So I feel very comfortable with the archaic revival theme. My name is Jane and I also live in the valley and I'm very grateful to be in your presence and looking very much forward to hearing especially Nicole as your name. Thank you. I'm Kat Danisch. I'm a painter and I work here. I'm very curious and interested in the other parts of reality that are attached to working with art and the psychedelic. My name is Ingrid. I'm a work student here. I'm coming from Vienna, Austria. I'm here in your workshop because I have heard many interesting things about Nicole and you, great things, and now I will find it out myself what is true about. My name is Anne and I'm an artist and I live in Ojai in Santa Monica. I've heard enough that I'm fascinated by this information and I'm looking forward to hearing more. My name is Kevin and I came because I got the, somehow I got on the mailing list. They sent me this out and I looked through them and this one looked really good. I have no expectations. I heard Kevin speak once down in Los Angeles and that was an interesting experience. I'm looking forward to it. If I'm looking forward to it, then that's an expectation. My name is Gary and I work here at the Heel Heights Foundation. One of my interests, I guess, would be what the source of the information is, where they come from, what sort of structure they find and how they got there. My name is Dan Simon and I live in Los Angeles and I like plants and I like to grow them and heal them and see them grow. I like to hear parents talk about plants. My name is Joy Alex and I've listened to Dan's tapes about this. I love all the food for thought and I'd love more. My name is Carl. I'm a physician from Ormond County and I'm here out of curiosity and looking for insight. My name is Alan and this place is a spiritual home for me and my wife. We come here a lot and it's good to be here. Terrence is always a great pleasure to be with. I like to think of him as the Abraham Lincoln of consciousness. Particularly exciting to have an opportunity to meet Nicole and a chance to spend some time with the two of them together. I'm Marion. I'm an old friend of Terrence's and I'm happy to meet Nicole and I'm interested in the stories about the forest and the animals. My name is Randy and I'm not familiar at all with Nicole but I'm familiar with Terrence's man zone and what we're looking for. I think we haven't heard yet. We've heard quite a bit already. My name is Diane. I'm an artist and I've been having this wonderful experience since I've seen you for the first time this evening. We've been listening to "True Hallucinations" and a senior photograph and something, well some very strange phenomenon is going on for me because hearing you speak, I mean I heard you speak about going down the path in my head and it was a whole of your words but it was coming from a speaker. And I don't know if I'm explaining this right but it is a very strange phenomenon. A true hallucination. Hi, I'm Max August. I'm a therapist and I'm interested in consciousness and what time, space and reality are all about. It seems like you've got some things to say about that. My name is Daniel Siebert and I'm a plant grower and I run a partnership with a girlfriend in the sweater business. I received a itinerary of Terence's a couple of months ago and there was an asterisk next to the Nicole Maxwell event and down at the bottom it said, "should be very interesting." So that's why we're here. My name is Ellen and I design sweaters and Daniel left out part of what he does which is he has a magical plant business. We're very interested in plants from the Amazon and the psychoactive effects. Yes, Daniel and Ellen have a business which is one of the few places in the United States where some of these psychoactive and medicinal Amazonian plants actually find a commercial outlet. I'm Laurel and I'm from New Hampshire and I'm very much of a child to the full consciousness thing. I'm looking for some new answers to old problems or old answers to new problems, which are the women in this. My name is Bob and I work at the Ohio Foundation and I've gotten a lot of different perspectives on your work from the staff here and I thought it was rather intriguing. So seeing what's up, I hope you like what you hear. My name is June and I'm here because I like being with people of like mind. I'm very interested in your work, I write, I'm a therapist and do art work and I'm in very good company. I'm Candace and I'm an artist as well as a sculptor and I'm interested. I heard Terrence on KPFK for the first time and I grew up to be a high foundation for tapes and that's how I got to be a sculptor. What Terrence has to say has fascinated me because of where I go when I'm doing my art work and what state of mind I get in to do my art work seems to have a great deal of a camaraderie with what he speaks about. My name is John and I live here at the foundation. I'm interested in the nature of the mind, especially the mind before it became so overloaded with symbols. At this time I don't think we have the possibility to look at that mind without looking through the veil of symbols. I'd like to see through shamanism which goes back perhaps 40 or 50,000 years to a time when maybe the mind was much more quiet. Through that maybe I can find something out a little bit more about the mind. I'm Joan. Thanks to Nina I met Terrence about 15 years ago and he continues to charm me with increasing number of insane images. I'm an anthropologist and I've had a long relationship with the American people and I'm very interested in examining in many ways personally and in other ways the relationship between indigenous peoples and endangered environments. I'm Gigi. I'm currently an emcee and part of the backup band for spirit artists at the Ojai Foundation. I am interested in I would say events and people, ideas, experiences that help deepen our sacred relationship to class, to all life. I'm particularly happy to see Nicole here as a welcome coming back from a women's retreat to see such a fine distinguished woman here. It's a homecoming to accompany such a fine distinguished woman. What an Irish tongue you've got. My name is Jim. I'm a part of a small company that develops social and responsible business ventures. For many years we've been doing business with the Soviet Union and recently become involved in Brazil because we believe that part of the answer to the preservation of rainforests is the development of commercially viable businesses that support the culture and the preservation of the Amazon basin rather than its destruction. So I'm currently learning all I can about the Amazon basin to apply our business acumen to this whole task. My name is Lauren Kennedy. I'm a contemporary artist. I've been working with digital reception for years. I'm from South America also. I've been studying comedies for the last two years. I'm looking forward to your new insights and thank you for being here. My name is Marina and last year I went to the Amazon for the first time. I stayed for a couple of months and I went to Brazil to comprise the Amazon. I was particularly interested in the preservation of the rainforest and preserving the plants. I got involved with a group of people who are working to save the forest. They do stuff on the station very much and the plants are dying. I've been working with them for the last year and I'm particularly interested in medicinal herbs and I've been interested in the use of them in Africa and different parts of the world. I'm particularly interested in as much knowledge as I can get. What I'm looking for is your name. It's been ringing in my ears for the last year. I'm very curious to know what you have to say. It's great to have you here. My name is Janet. I live here at the Ojai Foundation and I'll probably be speaking to some of you later. When I came here tonight to hear some stories. My name is Lynn Bradford. I've recently come from the east to join the staff at Ojai doing program work. I'm a peace and justice activist from a long time. That includes justice for the environment. I'm glad you're both doing your work for it. I'm always glad to see gutsy, avant-garde, way out ahead women. I'm very glad to see you there. You're a good role model. My name is Pat. I live in Malibu and I came from New Mexico. I love the psychedelic realm and I love to do this stuff. My name is Dushanka and I was recently introduced to you via a tape at your presentation at Esalen and I found it very inspiring and I'm glad to hear more. I'm Sarah and I'm listening to Janet's talk and I'm glad to hear your full talk. My name is Lily and I live here in the valley and I have a therapist here at the Amazon and hallucinogenic drugs from way back. I do production work with music festivals because I believe music is magic and I have also an interest in magic and the goddess. I love to hear Terrence speak because it always makes me laugh and I always learn something and I thank you for that. My name is Nicole. My name is Lynx and I'm happy to be here. I haven't heard either of you speak before. I'm looking forward to it. My name is Bob and I recently heard Terrence up at Esalen. I did a weekend series of talks and I sent Dushanka that tape. I'm Eric. I'm semi-lucid insomniac and I'd like information. Thank you for sharing. My name is Sean. I'm a registered nurse and I work in an emergency room in Ventura. I've been listening to Terrence for a couple of years and I'd like to be involved in getting you to do something. I'm Tara. I'm also an emergency room nurse and I was with Terrence and David and Nicole. I'm Pauline. I'm a psychiatric nurse and we don't even know each other. I study different forms of healing and I'm a crew of the Amazon Nets. I very much love the land and I'm very interested in the ancient ways that come from here. Were you on the NAPO or where were you? I was on the Amazon. I'm Tandra. I'm living in Ohio now. I'm a mother of two daughters. I've wandered around a bit around the world. I'm interested in good ideas, in consciousness. I love plants and the forest and I'm happy to be here. Looking forward to listening tonight and I hope we get to you. My name is Lola and I live here and I'm completely interested in the unlimited expanse of human consciousness. I'd love to listen to Terrence as one of the astral travelers in all those realms. I'm happy to be here and it's a pleasure to meet Nicole as well. Nicole, why don't you just take a few minutes and say whatever's on your mind? Well, the first thing I would say, that I ought to, is I never really thought too much about the out-of-the-ordinary experiences that we all have because it seems so natural. And I've been with so many cultures now. I first went to the Amazon region in 1948, that is, as an expedition. And that was not so for the purpose of getting medicinal plants. I wanted some excitement. I got it. But the one thing about that was I got hooked on jungle. It's the only thing I've ever been really addicted to. I can't stay away too much. I get restless. And it does that to some people because, you see, it is an entity. It is not just a bunch of trees and rivers and mud and bugs. To me, at least, and to most of the people who live in it, I think it's primitive people, it is a very definite personality. And it has power. And so that is how, why I have to keep going back. My first trip, did it. I got into a tribe who'd never seen white skin before. They didn't think much of it. They, no, they took my hand and went this way. And then they said something and everybody broke up, just howling. And I kept saying to my guide, "What'd they say, Alfredo, what'd they say?" And Alfredo was laughing so hard he couldn't say. But he finally dried his eyes and said, "He says, 'That isn't white paint, it won't come off. She's really got skin like a fish and eyes like a fish belly, so she's hideous.'" So that went my chance, my ideas of being the white queen of the jungle. And after that, I learned that these people were very different from other people I've known, in that you could really trust them anywhere. These, I was with a group of divas, they're the ones who cut off the heads of people they kill in battle and then shrink them. It's quite an easy matter. It's nothing particularly magical. They boil the head a little bit and make a slit up the back and peel the skin off, delicate cutting around the cartilage. And sew it up again and then fill it with hot rocks, smaller and smaller hot rocks. And then finally sand and sort of model it and you get a nice little shrunken head called a tanzer. And so... Some people have suggested it might be rather good for me. But they were... This is my first encounter with primitives, except for very briefly in Laos, in Indochina, as it was then. And... I discovered... They wanted everything I had, of course. Safety pins were the greatest, the most popular. I had fortunately somehow got the idea of taking a Laos safety pin. And since women wear a dress that goes... a piece of cloth wrapped around and brought over one's shoulder, rather chic, and fastened here usually with a thorn, safety pins, combining the elegance of jewelry with modern technology, were a great success. And they... But I could... And they also rather sometimes wanted cloth. They weren't so sure. I dig a lot of gaudy stuff in. And... But they didn't... Mostly they wear brown. Hand... Stuff they weave out of the native cotton. Cotton grows all over the place. And then dye brown and make into their clothes. And... But I could leave everything I owned spread out because we got... You're always getting wet in jungle. Getting rained on. Your raft... I was on a raft, that one, because we'd gone through some rapids you can't take a canoe through. And... Everything out to dry. And I could go away all day, and they wouldn't touch a thing. They're very, very honorable. In fact, honor is all they've got, you see. Because they have... Anything they... Any possessions, in a short time, will get mildewed, or they'll be eaten by bugs, or they just plain rot. And so you can't be anybody important by owning things. You have to be it. You have to be the best hunter, or the best warrior, or whatever. And it works out rather well, until our people come along and teach them a lot of other things. But that was the first trip, and I learned to respect and admire these people very much. And I had to keep going back. Only... And so I'd been hearing about medicinal plants all the time I'd been in South America, and I'd been in the churches by then three years, and that the Indians had wonderful remedies, and I didn't believe a word of it. I'd had a year and a half of medical school, and these savages couldn't know anything that my professors didn't know. That's what I thought. And it took me three years, I seemed to be a slow learner, before I could accept that they did have some remarkable things. And only then, because I fell on my machete, and got a big gash in this arm, and I have a slight tendency to be a bleeder, and I was out in the bush not very far from the house, and put on a tourniquet of a vine, and came back, and the interpreter, who was the administrator, that this was a property owned by the widow of a Peruvian, who happened to be a gal from Brooklyn, and it was way out of nowhere. It took five... The record for getting there by canoe was five days. And the border of the property, there was one range of mountains, and a river over here, and that way. And so, but here I was bleeding all over the place, and they brought out a bottle with some tree sap in it, and put some on, but of course, when you're bleeding like that, nothing will take. It doesn't stay there. And so they said, "You have to drink some of this." And well, I didn't want to be rude, so I drank it. It was almost horrible. Acrid, made your mouth pucker, and in three minutes, about three to four, I would say, the bleeding had quite stopped. And that was kind of interesting, so I thought... I had plenty of penicillin, I didn't have to worry about infection, so they told me that putting this stuff on it would stop any infection. So I thought, "I'll see." And I put a couple of pieces of... a few pieces of adhesive across it, holding it together, but I could see in between, because it got quite dry. And there was never any infection. There was practically no inflammation. In the morning, there was a neat scab, a very narrow one, and it healed in a little less than half the normal time, leaving only a very slight scar. So then I had to do a little rethinking, decide that my nice, arrogant position of our superiority in medicine would do a little reviewing. And from then on, I went after medicinal plants. And I found they have so much... And their psychedelics are just as important. As a matter of fact, I think there are rather more of them than is generally recognized, even tobacco. Chewing tobacco and swallowing it is very hard on the stomach, but we will hallucinate. I don't recommend the tobacco, there are far pleasanter ways. And they use those hallucinations so very routinely. They'll tell you, "Well, I didn't know what to do for my son, he was so sick, so I took Ayahuasca." I mean, sometimes it was just one person alone in the jungle. And, "Oh, I took any one of a dozen, and I saw those tigres attack my son, that's what happened to him." Or something like that. And it is so much a part of the life, that you stop thinking of those things or the medicines as particularly remarkable. They're there, and you use them as you would use soap, or any ordinary thing. But with greater respect, there is a very definite need that is manifested to respect the things you use, especially the psychedelics. I remember the first time I took home a piece of Ayahuasca to plant in my garden, the shaman who gave it to me, a very nice friend of mine, who lives quite near Iquitos, doesn't he? In Picuruyaco. He's been up there. And it's a little village, mostly of mestizos, being, well, most of them aren't too far from a tribe themselves, and Nouveau-Civilisé is very much like Nouveau-Riche. They have great contempt for the poor, and the poor in what we consider culture. And so the Indians there, there are about eight of them, Yawa, and Ritoto mostly, and Bora. And they stuck together, and they took the things to the market and all that. And I didn't realize when I first got acquainted with them that three of them were shamans. And I didn't know that until one day one of them came to my house, and it was Vicente, who was quite old, and he was blind. It was very hard for him to get around. And he had to cross a river and then get on a bus or walk from Bella Vista, which is about three or four miles, and he had a little boy guiding him. It was raining. So I realized this was not just a dropping in to see a friend. And he sat down and he said, "You have to save me." And I said, "What do you mean? What can I do?" He said, "They will arrest me for murder." And I said, "Whom did you kill?" And he said, "I didn't kill anybody. It's Bellisario." He said, "Do you know, I'm a witch. I hadn't known it." And he said, "Bellisario is a witch, too." And he's off on a trip somewhere. He had gone up to the Marignone River, and Bellisario had died. He got sick and died. And he said, "Do you know, I know that they will say that I put a spell on him, and I put it, sent a dart at him, and the police will come and get me and arrest me for murder." "Is that a matter of fact?" So I said, "No, no, they won't." And finally I had to say, "All right, I'll speak to the general about it. Now tell him you didn't do anything." And then he was at ease. But it's that much a part of the ordinary texture of everyday life in a great part of the population. And so you get so, that you get a little used to it, and you sort of accept it as, "Well, that's part of life." And I think it does all rather a lot of good to consider the possibilities. What do you think? (laughter) Sounds good, Nicole. But I'm not going to let you off the hook so easily. I want to bring a little bit of this out. Your name is really associated with, in the public mind, I think, with the contraceptives that are very much a woman's secret. Yeah, I remember somebody told me, "If I kept this up, I'd be called Contraceptive Connie." Contraceptive Connie. Not a title, I think. (laughter) (silence) {END} Wait Time : 0.00 sec Model Load: 0.65 sec Decoding : 2.10 sec Transcribe: 2851.50 sec Total Time: 2854.24 sec